As I read in operator guide, there are some machines which are only process station.

As Wago provide a Linux open source development kit for their controllers, would it be possible to made those controller working as Proview process station?
Topics of this discussion are:

1) Would it be possible to build Proview for Wago controller? How much and what kind of work is needed for that? How complicate it will be?

2) According to hardware specification, what performance could we expect?

3) Is it an interest for a such tiny process station by Proview users ?

Feel free to post you comment and opinion about on or more question given above.

Regards

Rey Cyril

Hello Rey

A couple of month ago, I considered to take the wago controller too. But after evaluation, I fear the performance is rather too low and the hardware out of date.

Additionally it needs, because the ARM architecture of the processor a crosscompilation of Proview, which in it's distributed version compiled for x86 CPU's.

Further more, the Wago system bus for the I/O modules needs to be implemented.

Both tasks are possible to do, but for all that work you need to ask you, whether the effort still makes sense. Why not just using a compact industrial PC with a Wago bus coppler with Modbus TCP connection?

Or, when you need exactly this kind of embedded system, use a CX10x0 from Beckhoff with a performant x86 architecture. Of course there you need to install a linux, implement the I/O system K-Bus or E-Bus too, but at least you have, from my point of view a more future orientated controller.

Regards Peter

Hi Peter,

Your comment are relevant.

I agree that regarding to specification, Wago performances seem to be quite poor. Real performances with CoDeSys are good up to 50 I/O. I think Proview can be better than CoDeSys because it will be directly compiled for the target instead of running into a runtime. I am also curious about CPU and Specifications for other major PLC vendor?

You told porting Proview to Wago (or any embedded systems) is technically possible, although, it is not effort less. So, about \"if it makes sense or not\", it is more a marketing than a technical question yet.

For whatever reason, sometimes people feel not safe with PC based automation. Maybe most apprehension results from long startup time or because Microsoft subservience. Having a trusted dedicated hardware would help convince them. Then, next, nothing prevents us from showing them that we can reach same level of liability with a PC running Linux.

I can also imagine some distributed control system (DCS) which requires a lot of intelligent nodes (process station) with few I/O on each. (Energy monitoring, remote heating, drinking water supply, infrastructure).

There are also some tiny installations where only a controller under 1000 euro is suitable to be competitive, but we still would develop with the same knowledge than bigger installations. (Home/building automation, machinery, heating, ventilation, air conditioning, solar)

At my knowledge, the 750-860 is the only PLC which allows open source development. So it is a good candidate for. With this support, Proview may benefit from Wago reputation and reciprocally.

The CX10X0 is a good alternative too. I do not know his price. Wago also sold computer with Linux (rebranded from Kontron) but global price is more expensive than a standard PC with TCP modbus IO.

Regards

Cyril

I would say that the performance of the 750-86x module seems quite poor.

WAGO have more modules not specified soley for linux like the 758-870, with a little better performance, but the will probably cost more also.

If you want a compact system I would recomend a PC104-computer/IO where you easily get 586-power with usb/CF/(S)ATA-disk interface and lots of memory.

Or a pc104-computer and some distributed IO.

my opinion is that it's not worth the effort to try get proview running on a 750-86x, unless you're doing it as a experiment.

Hello Cyril

I understand your approach and I agree most of them.

Just first, do you know the price for the wago coppler?
Here are the list - prices for the Beckhoff CX CPU's:

CX1000 (266MHz x86, 32MB RAM, CF) --> 481 Euro
CX1010 (500MHz x86, 256MB RAM, CF) --> 585 Euro
CX1020 (1GHz x86, 256MB, RAM, CF) --> 835 Euro

Formfactor is more or less the same as the Wago system.

You are right, as we strip down the runtime of Proview to a minimum it might be even more performant than Codesys. But I think especially in region of the low price controller, performance is not a main arguement. Usually it is just the price.

So, which means we should focus on price issues. What are your targets? Do you intend to use hundrets of controllers in e.g. building automation? Then it might the right decision to invest time to integrate and especially maintain the toolchain to build proview RT for an ARM architecture.

That's the point I think is important. Somebody, and preferable the guys from Proview, would need to integrate this toolchain to their development system to keep it with further versions up to date.

So in that point the developers from Proview are asked, whether they are interested to integrate the ARM system in their software?

Regards Peter

Hi,

Proview is already adapted to embedded Linux and cross compilation. Furthermore its ported to ARM and this version is tested on the Fox G20 board. It's built with glibc but I don't think it will be any problem to use uClibc instead.

The problem with the Wago 750-86x is the size of the flash. It will be a challange to strip down Proview to this size...

/Claes